“There are those who deny that Jesus ever existed but there was far more written about him than any other person in ancient history. In addition to the 27 different documents in the New Testament, there are many non-Christian sources as well”

Let me be quite clear in stating the fact that there is not one shred of evidence that Jesus Christ ever walked the earth, much less that he said or did any of those things claimed on his behalf in the bible.

There’s also absolutely no proof, outside of the bible, that Moses, or the vast majority of biblical characters ever lived. In fact those things that archeological evidence has revealed in favor of the bible are very few and completely irrelevant to any divine scripture and/or miracles.

On the other hand, the evidence that the Israelites borrowed extensively from the ancient Egyptian’s religious text, and temples, is overwhelming. The arc of the covenant is unmistakenly an Egyptian artifact, as are all of the furnishings the bible mentions as part of Solomon’s temple.

However, there is absolutely no proof that there ever was a such a temple in Jerusalem, and a very large body of evidence points directly to Avaris, Egypt as the location for the Israelite’s temple. Unlike what the bible says, that temple was built to honor Seth, the God of chaos.

We know that the Canaanites or “Shepherd Kings”, as the Egyptians refered to them, ruled Upper Egypt from Memphis, with a summer residence in Avaris for about 100 years, from roughly 1600 BC to 1500 BC. They were expelled by “Ahmoses”, an Egyptian king, in the 16th year of his reign.

According to Manetho, the story of the Exodus takes place, when the priest “Osarseph” (the biblical Joseph) with a following amongst “diseased” people were exiled to the land of Canaan, and organised a rebellion in alliance with the Canaanite population, and invaded Egypt, driving Amenhotep and his son Ramses, into exile.

Osarseph and his leper followers are said to have instituted a 13-year reign of religious oppression before Amenhotep and Ramesses/Sethos eventually returned to oust the usurpers, expel them from the nation, and restore the old Egyptian religion.

This is said to be remembered, and distorted as the expulsion of lepers by Moses. At any rate, the evidence found in Egypt is not in favor of the bible’s version of events. Quite simply the Jews were not slaves in Egypt, they were expelled as foriegn rulers or “occupiers”, and they took their religious doctrine, and Gods from Egypt’s great temples.

As for Jesus Christ, and Christianity, this masterpiece was a complete fabrication from the trinity of Horus, Isis, and Osiris. So don’t tell us that there is evidence, that what the Old and New Testament say is true. Nothing could be further from the truth. From what I’ve read here so far Jane, you just make this stuff up as you go. Problem for you, is that some of us here rely on actual research.

Fortunately the truth that this country was actually founded by Freemasons, has come to light recently. Freemasonry promotes the ancient cult of Sun worship, and the Freemasons who founded this country were anything but Christians. The Treaty of Tripoli is also very clear on this issue, and for very good reason.

For a United States president to claim this country a Christian nation, is not only a clear violation of the establishment clause, it’s also very dangerous to foreign policy. Obama, a constitutional law professor, certainly knows better than to touch that issue. The conservative right, unable to find any viable fault with Obama’s policies, would jump at the chance to toss him to the wolves on that issue, even if it might alienate their Evangelical voters.

Once again Obama speaks the truth, and conservatives cry foul. Is it any wonder Americans tossed them out on their cans?

Not to defend the historical accuracy of the Qur’an, but could you please link to “historical evidence” of the crucifixion.

Therefore, it would be appropriate for Madison to refer to the Ten Commandments as a foundation for self-government.

This seems to be obvious nonsense. Familiar as Madison was with the Bible (as were all the Founding Fathers, certainly much more so than the vast majority of Christians in this “Christian nation”), why would he endorse a government that commanded the worship of one, particular God, and which forbids, by law, doing any work on the Sabbath? (And of course, according to the source for these commandments, the punishment for being a Hindu or cleaning out the barn on a Sunday, is death.) Both of these are fundamentally un-American concepts.

(Not to mention the commandments require us to honor our mothers and fathers, which is a good idea, generally. But if your parents beat you every day and you curse them for it, the punishment is that old Bronze Age standard, death.)

Obama has the right to say that he doesn’t consider our country to be a Christian nation. He doesn’t have the right to say “We don’t consider ourselves to be a Christian nation” when the polls show otherwise.

Also, to be clear, I have never said or implied that this nation is a theocracy — far from it. Many of our founders were fleeing religious persecution and they went to great lengths to make sure we had freedom of religion — not freedom from religion. We are a nation, founded predominately by Christians who based our government on Judeo-Christian principles. That is a fact! Also, the overwhelming majority of our citizens still recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ.

As for the Madison quote I used in this piece, I thanked Ed for calling my attention to this excellent article by David Barton, whom I greatly admire, and I urged all of my readers to review it in its entirety. I agree with David Barton that Christians should be careful not to use a quote without an original source document because we should hold to the higher legal standard, not simply the academic standard. Therefore, I will cease to use it until it can be traced directly to Madison.

It does not, however, mean that the Madison quote is bogus, only that it has not been traced to him directly, which leaves open the possibility that it may be located with more digging. (Wallbuilders has, in fact, located the original source documents for many quotes that previously were unconfirmed). In fact, a major primary document by Madison surfaced as late as 1946. As to this quote Barton writes “they are consistent with Madison’s thoughts on religion and government. They are consistent because the key idea being communicated is self-government, not religious laws or establishments. Our future rests upon the ability of all to govern themselves according to a Biblical standard. Madison could have easily offered the thought.

“Concerning a republican form of government, he spoke in the Federalist #39 of “that honorable determination which animates every votary of freedom, to rest all our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government.” (emphasis added) Here we see an interesting similarity to the quote’s wording, which may have led to a paraphrase that was erroneously attributed to Madison.

“Speaking against direct religious taxation in his Memorial and Remonstrance, Madison wrote:
‘While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. ‘

“The religion of divine origin was obviously Christianity, of which Madison said he was convinced. Therefore, it would be appropriate for Madison to refer to the Ten Commandments as a foundation for self-government. Granted, he fought to abolish religious establishments much of his life, but that is not the issue. The issue is whether Madison could have made such a statement. He could have; the questionable quote is not out of character. ”

The fact that so many of you, however, think that it was Barton who popularized that quote shows how little you know or perhaps all you can do is parrot what someone else has said.

Also, it points out how important Barton’s research has become. I will hold to the Barton standard in all future columns and I challenge all of you to do the same. Nevertheless, I want to get back to my central point: What is your problems with his book “Original Intent,” which uses the words of our founders to reach the same conclusion that I reached in this column?

1. You used a quote that you claimed came from Madison to support your argument. That was the only quote you included from any source other than President Obama (with whom you disagreed) and the Bible.

2. That quote was first popularized by David Barton. While it has since been quoted and re-quoted, it was Barton who first brought it to prominence. It has been well documented as being false, a determination that even Mr. Barton has confirmed.

3. Your use of a faked quote undermines your entire argument, especially since that quote was your primary supporting data, and the only portion from the founders of our nation.

Now, you could choose to honestly acknowledge your error and find other support for your point – or you could choose to dodge the issue and talk about other unspecified quotes for which Barton may have better documentation, and which may or may not have anything to do with the point you tried to make. It seems that you have, unfortunately, chosen the latter.